Suicide - how to talk to your kids

I was asked to write about a very difficult topic today. The issue of suicide, and how to talk to your kids. This issue is often complicated by misconceptions inside belief systems, and confuses what we should believe regarding afterlife, and God’s perspective on the whole thing.

Weighty stuff, not sure, but I hope this helps.

I wanted first to point out a couple of challenges inside the current make up of our society, that make this particular conversation (and others like it) hard to have with our kids. I want to start there.

I read a book this last year about how we react.

That is right, how we react.

The book was called “The Flinch” I’ll post a link at the end for you to look it up, you should read it.

In essence there were a couple of things I learned from this book that have proven really helpful for me! The first thing I learned is the pervading tendency in our society today is to flinch back. We have all done it, in fact, I spent the majority of my life doing it. We do it when we look at email, we do it when we get a visa bill, we do it when all the time in so many different scenarios, we have forgotten that we are doing it. The thing we have forgotten, this things we are doing is flinching back.

I’m not sure when why or under what circumstance I learned to flinch back, but I know for years that is what I did. Flinching back disguises itself in many different ways. How about, stepping on a scale (no I don’t want to, because of what I will see) or how about fixing a machine (no, I’ll probably just break it and make it worse) or how about cooking a new recipe (no it will ruin an evening if I get it wrong) How about talking to that employee about that mistake they made (no, I would not know what to say) or to our friend about that mistake we see them making over and over again (they won’t listen anyway)

All of these and many more are examples of flinching back, ok, but what does flinching forward look like?  Well, flinching forward is seizing problems as opportunities! Huh? For instance we can see a broken appliance as an opportunity to expand our horizons of the things we can fix. You can see a snow storm as a time to connect with people to help. You can see the problems your boss has at work as an opportunities for advancement.

Ok, flinching back, flinching forward, what is your point?

I think as parents we spend a lot of time flinching back, actually to broaden that, I think in relationships we spend a lot of time flinching back. We are uncomfortable, there are tears involved, maybe someone is hurt, and we think to ourselves “well, I just would not know what to say.”

True. You wont know what to say.

Not until you are into it.

A couple of months ago, the air compressor at work packed it in hard, most managers would be reaching for a phone – my manager Reinhard Timmerman reached for a wrench. There were parts everywhere – I asked him if he had ever taken one like this apart before.

“Nope.” (big grin)

I asked him if he knew how to put it together.

He stood with greased filled hands and said with a smile

“Well, I took it apart didn’t I?”

:-)

Yes, yes you did. There he was, flinching forward, beautiful, and it took some figuring, but it got fixed, and all put back together, and its been working ever since.

So how do you talk to your kids about _______________?

Today in Red Deer many parents are filling that blank with the word “suicide.”

How do you talk to your kids about suicide?

I don’t know. I don’t know your kids, I don’t know you. I don’t know what angle you take, or what story you tell, I just don’t. What I do know is that in the same way you have flinched forward about anything else in life – booking a holiday, driving in a snow storm, learning how to build something, well, you just do the same thing. You didn’t know how to build a house the first time you did, or drive, or ride a bike, or weld, or cook, but you flinched forward into the unknown, with wild abandon, and you learned as you went. You can do it. I know you can.

One thing that makes talking about suicide uncomfortable is certain beliefs about suicide being “unforgiveable.” This leads to a thought like “people who commit suicide go to hell.” This stands in contrast to some of the things I know in scripture. Such as “Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love” (1John 4:8 emphasis mine). This evening I texted a catholic coworker who I know keeps up on where the faithful are in regards to some of this stuff, he passed me on to a very good resource, that echoes my views on the subject. Ron Rolheiser writes a couple of articles on the subject I will reference at the end, he tackles this difficult subject well. This particular summary thought grabbed my attention:

There is an infinite distance between an act done out of weakness and one done out of strength. Likewise there is an absolute distinction between being too bruised to continue to touch life and being too proud to continue to take one's place within it.

Hurting kids, that suffer from the illness (as Ron apply describes it) complete an act out of weakness. And when this happens they are greeted, by (Ron’s Words again) “God's love, unlike ours, goes through locked doors, descends into hell, and breathes out peace where we can't. Most people who die by suicide will awake on the other side to find Christ standing inside their locked doors, inside the heart of their chaos, breathing out peace and gently saying: "Peace be with you!" “

With this in mind how do we talk to kids about these matters, well first, to ensure they are not stricken with the same illness?

I can imagine a time, for us, when we get that continual nagging pain in our sides for a couple of weeks – and we say “oh it is nothing” – that it is at this exact point we need to go and see a doctor. We need to flinch forward!

This is what I am asking that you do with your kids. To be honest, my kids are 2, 5, 10, and 12, I haven’t talked to them much about suicide, sex, drugs, and alcohol, but when the time comes, I’m going to flinch forward. Flinch forward into the uncomfortable reality of those conversations, stumble through my words, say the wrong things, and know, that if they are ill, from the things they hear at school, or whatever, that I will get them the help they need.

And maybe it wont help, maybe this same harsh reality happens to my family, maybe, I loose one of my kids to a mental illness that takes their lives, what shall we do then? Retreat? No, we will flinch forward, because it is the only way to come out the other side.

I’m really not asking you to do something you have not done before, we have all flinched forward! We have all tried something new for the first time! We have all started something without the full knowledge of how it would end! I’m just asking you to do it with your kids! You can do it, I know you can!

Thanks for reading friends – comments are welcome on this difficult subject.

slv2all


To expand (due to a great comment regarding practical advice) Find a time (supper, driving child to school etc) when you can say something like the following: "Hey you know that you can talk to me about anything right?" then gauge your child's response, if you can, look right to the bottom of their eyelids, see if you can see some small tears welling up there, that they are trying to hide.

You really have to be sensitive to the fact that these issues are hard to talk about. The next thing I would say, after a question like this is "You know that Dad loves you very much, and I wouldn't want anything to happen to you, how about we agree to talk about this later?" This way, you take the fear off of that moment, and pass it to the next - then you can just arrange a time to talk (instead of actually talking), maybe you go for coffee, or a drive, or a walk, it really depends on you guys.

If your child really doesn't want to talk to you, continue to take responsibility for them, find out if there is anyone else who they would feel comfortable talking to. Your spouse, the child's grandparents, aunts, uncles, teachers, school counsellors, etc.  You are basically finding them help, if you are unable to. the only other thing I would say is to start young if you can, and keep having this conversation over and over again. If you have older kids, just keep asking, keep persisting that you care. Also, feel free to say things like "Hey, I know life isn't perfect, and, sometimes we fight, but, know that I would do anything for you."

Thanks much for reading and responding - I don't know who responded anonymously, but I hope you get a chance to read this. And I hope it helps - slv2all 

follow me on twitter @justinhubert

Resources:

The Flinch:

http://www.amazon.com/The-Flinch-ebook/dp/B0062Q7S3S

Ron’s Articles on suicide:

http://www.ronrolheiser.com/columnarchive/?id=160

http://www.ronrolheiser.com/columnarchive/?id=1038

My own walk down this path:

http://slv2all.blogspot.ca/2012/04/only-way-out-is-in.html

go to SLEEEEP - Parenting!!!

How hard is bed time with your kids?

Ok another question.

How hard is it when you stay in a hotel?

Or.

Are there times when out of nowhere your kids at bed time are completely unruly seemingly out of nowhere?

Ok, here are some quick thoughts on what worked for us in our family of four. Our kids span from 2 years to 12, three girls and my boy is 5.

One of the major understandings that came from my learning with Dr. Gordon Neufeld on Neufeld’s Attachment Theory is the need for parents to consider their kids levels of anxiety, and how that effects their level of “attachment” with us. First maybe I should state that the “big idea” of attachment theory is that kids attach to caring adults that lead them to maturation.

Anxiety and sleep.

First lets talk about my 2 year old, who came into some issues this summer with falling asleep. My wife breast fed her – so she used to fall asleep while feeding – that’s fairly easy (said the dad) as you just put the little one down and go on with your evening. But then feeding ended, and we got locked into a pattern of cuddling to sleep – which works, but is necessary to transition out of. And that brought anxiety. And, anxiety and sleep don’t mix – as you probably know from your adult experience?

How do you reduce the anxiety of a two year old? They don’t talk, they don’t reason very well. They only understand a few basic things.

The main thing that causes anxiety in young kids at bed time is what Neufeld calls a “loss of proximity” with those that are caring for them. In other words – they want to hold you close until they drop off into sweet unconscious sleep. Actually holding them till they sleep can raise another issue – what happens when they wake up in the middle of the night and you are not there anymore? You guessed it, more anxiety in the middle of the night!!

Yay.

This is what we did. We played a little game for a couple of weeks, the biggest thing is to give your kids the feeling of being able to hold on to you while you are not there. Just like you who have a best friend, when even if you have not seen that friend in weeks, still know, that you are best friends. The problem is a 2yr old will loose this connection in about 17 seconds, and what you need to do is try and lengthen this out for a longer period of time – until they are able to fall asleep, and through the whole night.

So we played a game, and we started with her capability – 17 seconds. Kiss on the forehead, “dad will be right back” and “daddy is going to come back and kiss you on the forehead” or “Dad is going to come back and give you a hug” and “close your eyes until dad comes back” walk away, close door. Wait – and the trick is to go right back in before they call for you, and what this does is builds trust in what you say you are going to do you do. Now you start lengthening the time – we got up to 2 minuets, and with successive evenings over 2 weeks longer than that. The final things you can do, to actually transition to sleep is then say “Daddy is going to come back and kiss you once you are sleeping.” Here is the biggest thing – follow through on what you said you would do.

One of the most glorious sounds in the world to me (besides the sound of my 4 kids breast feeding – I know weird right) is the sigh a 2 year old makes when you come in to give them that kiss. The sigh is literally, physical, emotional, neurological and psychological all at once, you know this, in the anxious moments you have had, where the anxiety has been removed, or when you are about to fall asleep. When you relax….. ahhhhhh, THAT sigh.

Another really important thing in relationships with those with whom we are attached is something Neufeld calls “Bridging.” Bridging much like in the real world is the act of connecting something which is apart. When you leave someone’s presence we often “Bridge” to the next time we see them. Think about it, you do it all the time, when you are out with you friends, and the evening is drawing to a close, often we make statements like “see you at work tomorrow” or “can’t wait until the next time” or “I will call you tomorrow.” All of these statements and a myriad more are you “bridging” relationships.

Here is what will help older kids – I just did this with my 12 year old – just now at 10:00 (HAH she isn’t asleep yet and I’m writing about how to get your kids to sleep!!!!) But here is the deal – why isn’t she sleeping yet???? Grrrrrr…. Well when I ask….. (remember to get context) I find out, and remember that she is anxious about the fact that her 2 best friends have sleep over birthday parties on the same day. SHOOT that sucks for her, and it givers her anxiety (major girl issues!!) but hey – those are my responsibility as her dad too! So what did I just do? I asked her (as nicely as I could muster – because it IS frustrating – but try to keep bed time positive) “sweety what is wrong” “I’m still worried about being invited to two parties.” “Ok well, I am driving you to school tomorrow, so we will talk about it then.” That is bridging, and it lowers anxiety – tomorrow I will follow through.

 You can bridge with a 2yr old by saying – “see you in your dreams”, or “I’ll kiss you while you are sleeping”

For dads who work away you bridge by saying “dad is going away for a few days, I’ll call when I get to camp” – this lowers anxiety. You can say “I won’t see you till I get home from work, and if I’m late for supper I will text mom.” All of these sayings – and so many more that you will think of, lower the anxiety of our kids and maintain the connection.

Ok back to sleep – we try to end on the positive, say 3 or 4 positive things to each kid about their day, then we makes sure to say to each one, what will happen in the morning, who will be here, what we are going to do.

Hope this helps, happy parenting!!!

slv2all

Bullying - A parents Natural Responsibility Part 2

Bullying.

What is a parent’s natural responsibility?

Lets just let our hearts answer this one.  If you found out, your son or daughter had bullied someone at school to the point that you received a phone call from another concerned adult, how would you feel?

Any hint of a negative emotion around such a phone call – be it angry, frustrated, confused, bewildered…. or even rejecting it as true, denial, or the feeling of not wanting to take responsibility (it is their problem), this emotion means you feel something about this - responsibility.

Let me put it this way – when your child goes onto the ice and scores a goal, how do you feel? I hope you feel proud. I hope you understand, you had something to do with making that goal happen, all of your driving, early mornings, long hours at the rink. The action is theirs – but you are tied to it without question. What about when your child calls someone a “bitch” on facebook, and when you question them, they say “well she is, whatever, it is what all the other kids are saying anyway.” How are we suddenly able to divorce ourselves from their actions saying something like “kids these days.” When we find out our kids are involved in such activity, it should strike a cord deep within us, maybe even a “what could I have done better as a parent” cord.

Bullying, is immature. It is an immature action to try and gain control. As an adult in business, have I been bullied? Yes. Have I also bullied someone else? Yes.

As a child was I bullied? Yes. Did I bully someone else? Yes.

Is your child a bully?

Is mine?

?

Have I watched my 12 year old and my 9 year old cause my 5 year old to come to tears, because they unfairly ganged up against him and would not let him do something that he had every right to do?

?

Are my children bullies?

Hard questions. My answer is Yes. Because denial never helped anyone.

 Kids are immature. They do stupid things. They say stupid things. They hurt each other’s feelings. They pretend they don’t care. They divorce their actions from consequences “well I didn’t mean to,” or, “Well I didn’t know she would feel that way” or, “Well he did it to me so I just did it back.” Doesn’t all of that sound normal?

Kids are immature – on their way to maturity. Think about all the things you could not do the day you were born, that you do without even thinking about it now.

Kids are emotionally immature, relationally immature, physically immature, and every single interaction they have is teaching them who and how and what to be as an adult.

How do bullies start? Well they start in grade 1, calling someone a sissy, or a fag. And, this uncorrected action, leads into a habit, that destroys their concept of self worth, and the worth of those around them. Bullies – the kind that would post nude pictures of a 13 year old girl online unrelentingly – are not born overnight. They don’t just wake up one day, and decide, hey I know what lets do, lets try wrecking lives!!! They have low self esteems, they are highly peer oriented, and they thrive off of the rush of exploitation and control of their victims, they are often times themselves recipients of abuse, that was unchecked, they are often psychologically damaged, their hearts are damaged to the point that they feel no remorse for their actions.

So are my children bullies? And am I bully? – well maybe not in the extreme sense.

How did we get from the grade 1 kid calling someone a pussy, to the extreme forms of bullying we see today?

Highly Peer Orientated Youth culture.

Who’s responsibility is it?

Parents.

You and me.

What do we have to do?

I live in oil country, Alberta, we have a saying here of people that put their whole heart into the things they are responsible for, It is called the GAS factor. When an employee goes above and beyond – they have the GAS factor. When a business notices a negative tweet – and fixes the problem in a positive way – they have the GAS factor. When people stay late, to get the job done, to save the boss from paying for another days travel – they have the GAS factor.

What does it stand for?

Give A Shit

Care!!!!!

I once was in Nordegg with a buddy, and we found what we thought was a logging road, so we thought we would drive it for a bit, soon we had no choice, we were going up!!! To narrow to turn around, we wound our way, around and around and around to the top of a mountain, know what we found there? GAS. We found that someone had built the most immaculate, intricate, ….I don’t even know what it was really, in the middle of nowhere, a top-of-a-freaking-mountain-GAS-and-oil-thing. I don’t know exactly what it was…

Do you know what I know for a fact? It took the GAS factor to get it there!  Men and women had the GAS factor, a lot of hard work, grit sweat, blood and tears, and we could point to other accomplishments in this province, I could point you to the new Bow tower in down town Calgary. Or to our many river crossings, or the 100’s of 1000’s of gas lines that criss-cross this province so we can all enjoy the convenience of nature gas, or the many many kilometers of paved roads we are so blessed with, or our world class cities, I could go on and on. I’ve seen it. Good old Alberta GRIT – through and through, people that care, fracers that work their asses off, and women holding down the fort at home – we got it in spades in this province, because we “Give A Shit” about the stuff put in front of us.

So here it goes.

I’m putting something else in front of you, that I need you to care about, that I need you to apply the GAS factor to.

Relationships

Relationships between men (over beer or coffee)– “hey man, marriage and working away can be tough – how is it going?”

Relationships between women (over beer or coffee) “Hey there, managing a house, and a business is hard, how is it going?”

And finally, relationships with our kids. These relationships are VITAL to their successful maturing into adulthood. I need you to apply the GAS factor, and this is what I know what will happen if you do. You will succeed. Want to know how I know you will? Because of all of your other success in the past, because you are reading this, because you care, because you give a shit about your kids, about our community, their schools, their education. Because something inside the story of a young teen committing suicide, pisses you off. Because something inside you has regret – even if it is just a touch of it for the things you have done wrong in the past. And now it is time to correct those wrongs through your kids.

Make eye contact with them every day, when they come home from school, ask them how they are doing – listen, put the phone down, get off of facebook – or pintrest, or the game console, get down on the floor lay on your back and read a book to a two year old. Ask a 12 year old about something they take an interest in, get into their face, between them and the TV, in a friendly way, look them in the eye – and ask them how they are, how was school, what do your friends talk about, what happened at the party, etc etc etc. Ask ask ask ask ask ask.

What does not caring look like? We use words like hope. Do your kids bully other kids at school – “I hope not.” Is your 13 year old sexualy active “I hope not.” Are your young boy looking at hardcore porn on the internet – “I sure hope not.” Well, one more thing about the GAS factor – at work we never use the word “hope.”

“Will that weld hold?”

“Do we have enough fuel?”

“Do we have enough material to finish the job?”

“Is there enough food and drinks for that many people?”

“Do we have enough time?”

“Do we have enough wire”

‘Do we have enough FRAC fluid and sand?

I hope so.

I hope so?

I don’t think so, that isn’t the GAS factor, you either know or you don’t, if you don’t you find out, you damn well do it right, and the weld holds every single time. Same goes for relationships – if you don’t know, find out, take responsibility for those you are responsible for.

Know.

If you find confusion – do the same thing you would do in the field – ask questions, get help, every person that displays the GAS factor puts their head on their pillow knowing they did their level best that day, with a mental checklist of what they need to do better tomorrow – every day.

Bullying is persistent and unrelenting, it starts young, builds into habits, the worst, are kids unconnected from caring adults, highly peer orientated, if they had deep caring relationships with their parents they wouldn’t be bullies, they would have stopped bullying before it got serious, as they learned to care about others. If your kids are young and you find out they have been bullying “gather them” – get in their face in a friendly way, and have a conversation – talk about other options, tell them what your family values are, take responsibility for what you are responsible for.

Now get to work. You can do it – I know you can, because you have the GAS factor, get to know your kids again.

slv2all

Bullying - a parents natural responsibility

Bullying.

What is a parents natural responsibility?

No one I have met, would say that a parent isn’t 100% responsible for an infant. Recently many online friends have or about to experience the natural wonder of childbirth. My online friend Becky Ainsley was the last person I know, who’s heart melted at the little bottom quivering lip of her infant son – see her story here: http://www.thebexfactor.com/2012/10/16/meet-mr-liam-john/

No one denies the responsibility of a parent at these moments. Infants are completely reliant on us, to feed, clean, nurture, connect.

So ok, that is a 1 week old, or, a 1 year old. What about a 12 year old?

I would argue that you are still 100% responsible but the role has changed.

Lets look at it this way – our job as parents is to nurture and protect our kids, until they are living breathing, contributing, fully aware adults, able to make their own responsible ethical and moral decisions, fix their own mistakes, and forge out their own lives. Can a 12 year old do that? Can they drive? Hold a job? Pay a mortgage?

Can a 15 year old? – still dependant?

16?

17?

25?

Where is the magic line?

Think about this, at your age – be it 28, 35, 40, 20, 22, what do you still need and want from your parents? Maybe it is a past regret – what do you wish they had done, maybe your parents have passed on, what do you still long for? A connection? An ear? Advice? A shoulder? Help? Guidance? Then how much more does a 12 year old need this? Amanda Todd was 12 when she made a mistake online.

For some reason, the industrial revolution pushes kids to early independence, if you listen to us, or watch us, parents start saying things like:

 “I don’t know”

“I don’t care”

“that is your choice, your consequences”

“Why should I help you with that”

“You made your own bed now you have to sleep in it”

Most of these statements – are probably true in their own right with a number of situations, the problem is what they convey to a young child’s mind. To the exact same issue, a parent could just as easily say (copy this list – I want it to be your mantra – your lines to rehearse and say, every day to your kids):

“I will take care of you”

‘this sucks, we will take care of it together”

“Sometimes we make mistakes – I want to help you fix it”

“I’m not sure, but Dad will help you find a solution”

“Every action we take has consequences, but I Love you, and we will see it through together”

“my love is deeper than any hole you could dig, I’ll help get you out of this”

There are many stages of maturing that go on with kids:

For a while they can’t eat – we provide!

For a while they can’t walk – we carry them!

For a while they can’t talk – we seek to understand them!

For a while they get sick – we spend hours in the ER!

For a while they do crazy stupid things – we bandage them up!

For a while they try new skills and fail – we encourage them to go on!

For a while they get hurt in relationships – we talk listen and comfort them!

For a while they struggle with their studies – we sit down with them!

For a while they get a job – we joyfully provide the transportation!

For a while they have dreams – we listen, encourage, and believe!

For a while they run into evil people – we protect their hearts!

Ok, so how?

It is your responsibility to “GATHER” your kids. Every day, multiple times a day, until they are out of your house, then even as adults, when you see them, gather them, connect with them ask how they are doing.

How?

It will all be in the eyes. And you know that this is true. How do I know it? – You experience it just like anyone else. Every single day. You do this with your friends like this:

You go out for coffee, they walk in, they don’t make eye contact, they are searching out the floor, there is no smile, they get coffee, sit, still they don’t look at you in the eye, they wait for you to say something, but, they haven’t engaged yet. Uncomfortable? They were fine yesterday, in fact yesterday they were happy and looking forward to coffee. Today they are – not here…. More uncomfortable moments pass, you have some small talk, weather, kids… but there is no connection, then not being able to stand it you say “Jill, what’s wrong?” you can see tears whelm up in her eyes, she is still unwilling to say anything, you instinctively reach out, and touch her hand, and then it happens, the tears come, the regret pours out, the story comes, about the fight they had, and the things she said, and THERE IT IS – WHAM, eye contact!!! Connection made. It is one of the magical things about human interaction. Now to flip the switch – it is your responsibility as a parent – to make this same deep connection with your kids – every single day. In the morning, after school, after hockey practice, after lunch…. Multiple times, every day, until you are tired of it, until you know in your heart – that they have been connected with – until they hear you and you hear them. Connect until it drives them nuts - and then turn it into giggles...(just tell them sheepishly that your nuts about them)...

Bullying

What has happened?

Kids are unconnected from their parents. And the human spirit, does not like a lack of connection – deep within us, is the primal instinct to be known, to be understood, to be heard, to be cared for.

And when kids get yelled at by their parents. When their parents say they "don’t care," when parents push their kids away to their rooms. When parents don’t "give a shit about [their] kids petty problems." When parents tell their kids to “deal with it” themselves. Kids are still longing for a connection – what happens? They connect with each other. Dr Gordon Neufeld in his ground breaking work on Attachment Theory calls it “Peer orientation.” When kids “don’t give a fuck what mom and dad think” and they instead listen to their friends about all things sexual, drugs, alcohol, friends, relationships, online activity, you have a problem. Why? Because teenagers are fickle, mean, on and off relationships – in short, they are not mature, and they were never intended to “Hold each others hearts” – that is what parents – or concerned, caring adults are for.

I have no control over bullies. I have no control over a major portions of my 12yr olds day. I don’t want her to be bullied, but she will be. And this does not mean, that I can’t hold her heart, engage with her every day, ask her how she is doing, and make eye contact with her. Every one of her problems is my problem - my responsibility.

Here is a list of things that keep us from making eye contact:

When you tell a lie

When you make a mistake

When we are hurt

When we feel vulnerable

When we fail

When we have done something shameful

When we have stolen something

When we have had a bad day

When we have hurt someone else

When we engage in something non age appropriate - sex, drugs, alcohol

If your kids won’t look you in the eye – something is wrong, it is your responsibility to figure out what. To keep your relationship the safest place on earth for them, and just like Bex ( @beckyainsley ), what wouldn’t mother bear do to protect her “little monster” from all the evil in this world? Just like her, it is your responsibility to maintain the connection, protect, guide, nurture, listen, talk, praise, and find the way out of any mess life brings – holding hands together.

slv2all

P.S. a lot of these thoughts come from Dr. Gordon's ground breaking work on Attachment Theory - read his book Hold on to your kids, go to his website for more info www.gordonneufeld.com